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	<title>Comments on: Theropod sociality</title>
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		<title>By: The giant, feathered tyrannosaur Yutyrannus huali &#171; Dave Hone&#039;s Archosaur Musings</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-17727</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The giant, feathered tyrannosaur Yutyrannus huali &#171; Dave Hone&#039;s Archosaur Musings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-17727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] which nicely hints at least (well, I&#8217;m going to say so) at the possibility of sociality (theropods being more social than previously suggested, how interesting?).  Multiple specimens are always great and animals [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] which nicely hints at least (well, I&#8217;m going to say so) at the possibility of sociality (theropods being more social than previously suggested, how interesting?).  Multiple specimens are always great and animals [...]</p>
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		<title>By: More on dromaeosaurs vs azhdarchids &#171; Dave Hone&#039;s Archosaur Musings</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-16556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[More on dromaeosaurs vs azhdarchids &#171; Dave Hone&#039;s Archosaur Musings]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2012 08:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] this is inferred. Most of my recent research is based around theropod ecology and behaviour (like this, this and this for example) and specimens like this one can provide new information and evidence [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this is inferred. Most of my recent research is based around theropod ecology and behaviour (like this, this and this for example) and specimens like this one can provide new information and evidence [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Diaz</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-15259</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Herman Diaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 22:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-15259</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Apart from the obvious stuff about hornbills etc, the medium-sized hawk /Parabuteo unicinctus/ lives in extended family groups and regularly hunts cooperatively for prey larger than itself, with several individuals attacking the same rabbit or hare. We’re talking about wolf-level cooperation here.&quot;

Don&#039;t forget about other diurnal raptors, corvids &amp; shrikes, which are also true cooperative hunters (although Harris&#039; hawks, Galapagos hawks &amp; brown-necked ravens are the only ones I know of that hunt in packs of 3 or more).

&quot;and I’m pretty sure it has a much bigger brain/body ratio&quot;

Brain structure can tell us so much more about possible intelligence (See “Conscious Critters”: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2008867-2,00.html ). Based on brain structure (See Walsh &amp; Milner 2011), eudromaeosaurs probably had the intelligence for pack hunting.

&quot;but why is it never on the list of possible models?&quot;

To be fair, there&#039;s Bakker (&quot;In all details of their body construction——hips, knees, ankles, feet and hands, eyes and brain—raptors are designed like ground-running superhawks&quot;: http://books.google.com/books?id=6LSERLP3BFsC&amp;pg=PA5&amp;dq=%22raptors+are+designed%22&amp;hl=en&amp;sa=X&amp;ei=Ch4nT8rdBKrr0gHY1PC9AQ&amp;ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&amp;q=%22raptors%20are%20designed%22&amp;f=false ) &amp; Fowler et al. ( http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028964 ).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Apart from the obvious stuff about hornbills etc, the medium-sized hawk /Parabuteo unicinctus/ lives in extended family groups and regularly hunts cooperatively for prey larger than itself, with several individuals attacking the same rabbit or hare. We’re talking about wolf-level cooperation here.&#8221;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t forget about other diurnal raptors, corvids &amp; shrikes, which are also true cooperative hunters (although Harris&#8217; hawks, Galapagos hawks &amp; brown-necked ravens are the only ones I know of that hunt in packs of 3 or more).</p>
<p>&#8220;and I’m pretty sure it has a much bigger brain/body ratio&#8221;</p>
<p>Brain structure can tell us so much more about possible intelligence (See “Conscious Critters”: <a href="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2008867-2,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2008867-2,00.html</a> ). Based on brain structure (See Walsh &amp; Milner 2011), eudromaeosaurs probably had the intelligence for pack hunting.</p>
<p>&#8220;but why is it never on the list of possible models?&#8221;</p>
<p>To be fair, there&#8217;s Bakker (&#8220;In all details of their body construction——hips, knees, ankles, feet and hands, eyes and brain—raptors are designed like ground-running superhawks&#8221;: <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=6LSERLP3BFsC&#038;pg=PA5&#038;dq=%22raptors+are+designed%22&#038;hl=en&#038;sa=X&#038;ei=Ch4nT8rdBKrr0gHY1PC9AQ&#038;ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&#038;q=%22raptors%20are%20designed%22&#038;f=false" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=6LSERLP3BFsC&#038;pg=PA5&#038;dq=%22raptors+are+designed%22&#038;hl=en&#038;sa=X&#038;ei=Ch4nT8rdBKrr0gHY1PC9AQ&#038;ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&#038;q=%22raptors%20are%20designed%22&#038;f=false</a> ) &amp; Fowler et al. ( <a href="http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028964" rel="nofollow">http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0028964</a> ).</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-15230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2012 00:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-15230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;No extant archosaur practices cooperative hunting?&quot;

Apart from the obvious stuff about hornbills etc, the medium-sized hawk /Parabuteo unicinctus/ lives in extended family groups and regularly hunts cooperatively for prey larger than itself, with several individuals attacking the same rabbit or hare. We&#039;re talking about wolf-level cooperation here. 

Now, it&#039;s not the world&#039;s greatest model for dromaeosaurs or tyrannosaurs - it&#039;s tiny and fragile, it&#039;s highly specialised for flight, it&#039;s not that closely related, and I&#039;m pretty sure it has a much bigger brain/body ratio - but why is it never on the list of possible models?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No extant archosaur practices cooperative hunting?&#8221;</p>
<p>Apart from the obvious stuff about hornbills etc, the medium-sized hawk /Parabuteo unicinctus/ lives in extended family groups and regularly hunts cooperatively for prey larger than itself, with several individuals attacking the same rabbit or hare. We&#8217;re talking about wolf-level cooperation here. </p>
<p>Now, it&#8217;s not the world&#8217;s greatest model for dromaeosaurs or tyrannosaurs &#8211; it&#8217;s tiny and fragile, it&#8217;s highly specialised for flight, it&#8217;s not that closely related, and I&#8217;m pretty sure it has a much bigger brain/body ratio &#8211; but why is it never on the list of possible models?</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Diaz</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14480</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Herman Diaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jan 2012 01:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14480</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Good to know the pack-hunting model study has been criticised (though I can’t access the article, so I don’t really know why). Could it be, anyway, that it might apply to predators other than wolves?&quot;

As Bekoff pointed out, Coppinger’s model is based on the faulty assumption that wolves don&#039;t communicate while hunting (among others). As indicated by the Stevens quote, pack hunters in general communicate while hunting.

Quoting Stevens ( http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/19/sc...ted=all&amp;src=pm ): &quot;As used by Dr. Ellis and his colleagues, the term requires that the foraging pair or group be a stable social unit; that some members, in a division of labor, sacrifice their own prospects for a direct kill in deference to the group interest; and that group members share in the spoils.In the most complex forms, raptors exchange signals to coordinate the hunt and cooperate in hunting outside the breeding season.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Good to know the pack-hunting model study has been criticised (though I can’t access the article, so I don’t really know why). Could it be, anyway, that it might apply to predators other than wolves?&#8221;</p>
<p>As Bekoff pointed out, Coppinger’s model is based on the faulty assumption that wolves don&#8217;t communicate while hunting (among others). As indicated by the Stevens quote, pack hunters in general communicate while hunting.</p>
<p>Quoting Stevens ( http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/19/sc&#8230;ted=all&amp;src=pm ): &#8220;As used by Dr. Ellis and his colleagues, the term requires that the foraging pair or group be a stable social unit; that some members, in a division of labor, sacrifice their own prospects for a direct kill in deference to the group interest; and that group members share in the spoils.In the most complex forms, raptors exchange signals to coordinate the hunt and cooperate in hunting outside the breeding season.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Maija Karala</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14474</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maija Karala]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14474</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Unusually, I have also heard Cuban crocs are the most terrestrial of living croc species.&quot;

At least they do have long legs for a crocodile. This is one of the couple living in Skansen Akvariet in Stockholm:

http://planeetanihmeet.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/img_1738.jpg

Seeing a crocodile in its own element was rather scary, actually.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Unusually, I have also heard Cuban crocs are the most terrestrial of living croc species.&#8221;</p>
<p>At least they do have long legs for a crocodile. This is one of the couple living in Skansen Akvariet in Stockholm:</p>
<p><a href="http://planeetanihmeet.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/img_1738.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://planeetanihmeet.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/img_1738.jpg</a></p>
<p>Seeing a crocodile in its own element was rather scary, actually.</p>
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		<title>By: Maija Karala</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14473</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maija Karala]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:54:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14473</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Same here. I have heard anecdotes of rather complex cooperative behavior in Cuban crocodiles (at least, relative to other crocodilians), but no references to back it up.&quot;

I found this:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/print/PrintArticle.aspx?id=141091822

Apparently, at least one source of claims about pack-hunting in Cuban crocodiles is a tooth found stuck in a giant ground sloth bone found by the fossil hunter Barnum Brown. The reasoning is that the croc couldn&#039;t have taken that big prey alone and must have attacked in groups. I find this doubtful at best. It would be interesting to know is anyone has attempted to rule out scavenging.

Not that I think simple &quot;guys, let&#039;s all bite the same sloth instead of attacking one each&quot; kind of pack hunting would be necessarily outside the boundaries of crocodilian intelligence.

Later parts of the article describe the commands and tricks that can be taught to captive Cuban crocodiles. They do seem surprisingly intelligent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Same here. I have heard anecdotes of rather complex cooperative behavior in Cuban crocodiles (at least, relative to other crocodilians), but no references to back it up.&#8221;</p>
<p>I found this:<br />
<a href="http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/print/PrintArticle.aspx?id=141091822" rel="nofollow">http://www.thefreelibrary.com/_/print/PrintArticle.aspx?id=141091822</a></p>
<p>Apparently, at least one source of claims about pack-hunting in Cuban crocodiles is a tooth found stuck in a giant ground sloth bone found by the fossil hunter Barnum Brown. The reasoning is that the croc couldn&#8217;t have taken that big prey alone and must have attacked in groups. I find this doubtful at best. It would be interesting to know is anyone has attempted to rule out scavenging.</p>
<p>Not that I think simple &#8220;guys, let&#8217;s all bite the same sloth instead of attacking one each&#8221; kind of pack hunting would be necessarily outside the boundaries of crocodilian intelligence.</p>
<p>Later parts of the article describe the commands and tricks that can be taught to captive Cuban crocodiles. They do seem surprisingly intelligent.</p>
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		<title>By: Maija Karala</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14472</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maija Karala]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 20:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the links and corrections.

I&#039;m pretty sure I read that stuff about wolf fossil record before 2009, so it might just be outdated now, not when it was written. :) And, well, it&#039;s not strictly about the modern wolf.

Social sabertooths? I have heard it suggested before, but didn&#039;t know about this evidence. Cool.

Good to know the pack-hunting model study has been criticised (though I can&#039;t access the article, so I don&#039;t really know why). Could it be, anyway, that it might apply to predators other than wolves?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the links and corrections.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure I read that stuff about wolf fossil record before 2009, so it might just be outdated now, not when it was written. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And, well, it&#8217;s not strictly about the modern wolf.</p>
<p>Social sabertooths? I have heard it suggested before, but didn&#8217;t know about this evidence. Cool.</p>
<p>Good to know the pack-hunting model study has been criticised (though I can&#8217;t access the article, so I don&#8217;t really know why). Could it be, anyway, that it might apply to predators other than wolves?</p>
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		<title>By: David Hone</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14465</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:23:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14465</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well that&#039;s becuase those are the two groups that get talked about most of all because those are the ones that have been mentioned specifically (Currie &amp; Ostrom esp).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that&#8217;s becuase those are the two groups that get talked about most of all because those are the ones that have been mentioned specifically (Currie &amp; Ostrom esp).</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Diaz</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14464</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Herman Diaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 17:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14464</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No worries. I understood what you were saying. It&#039;s just that you mentioned tyrannosaurs &amp; dromaeosaurs in particular, so I thought I&#039;d give my (evidence-based) opinions on the matter as it concerns them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No worries. I understood what you were saying. It&#8217;s just that you mentioned tyrannosaurs &amp; dromaeosaurs in particular, so I thought I&#8217;d give my (evidence-based) opinions on the matter as it concerns them.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hone</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My comment was about the hyperbole and discussion, not the actual scientific evidence. There&#039;s less than dozen papers that seriously deal with sociality in theropods at any length or in any detail and that is very little, there are however huge tracts of discussions online by people at to which taxa were or were not pack hunting and why, generally with no reference at all to the evidence because (mostly) of Jurassic Park and related stuff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My comment was about the hyperbole and discussion, not the actual scientific evidence. There&#8217;s less than dozen papers that seriously deal with sociality in theropods at any length or in any detail and that is very little, there are however huge tracts of discussions online by people at to which taxa were or were not pack hunting and why, generally with no reference at all to the evidence because (mostly) of Jurassic Park and related stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Diaz</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14461</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Herman Diaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 16:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I’m with Andrea. Social behaviour of various sorts was likely in Mesozoic dinosaurs, but we need to move as far as possible from the idea of always thinking about wolves and lions.&quot;

W/all due respect, why? Based on what I&#039;ve read (E.g. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/19/science/rabbits-beware-some-birds-of-prey-hunt-in-packs.html?pagewanted=all&amp;src=pm ), pack hunting in birds is comparable to pack hunting in wolves.

&quot;The idea that some theropods (and yeah, inevitably, especially dromaeosaurs and tyrannosaurs) may have lived in groups seems to be the subject of more debate, disagreement and hyperbole on the web than any other subject (and I bet there’s more coming in the comments), and yet there is remarkable little actually written about this in the literature.&quot;

In reference to tyrannosaurs, my opinion is this: As Witmer has shown (See 19:10-20:10: http://www.videozer.com/video/9Y177Zn  ), large theropods probably had the intelligence for pseudo-cooperative (I.e. Communal) hunting, but not true cooperative (I.e. Pack) hunting.

In reference to dromaeosaurs, my opinion is this: As indicated by the adult-only clump (E.g. Ostrom 1969), multiple shed tooth (E.g. Maxwell &amp; Ostrom 1995) &amp; trackway (E.g. Li et al. 2007) evidences, Eudromaeosaurs were probably social predators (be it communal or pack hunters); As indicated by the brain evidence (E.g. Walsh &amp; Milner 2011), Eudromaeosaurs probably had the intelligence for pack hunting; AFAWK, there are no large terrestrial hypercarnivorous endotherms that are social predators w/the intelligence for pack hunting, yet don&#039;t hunt in packs; Therefore, combining said evidences makes pack hunting Eudromaeosaurs probable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m with Andrea. Social behaviour of various sorts was likely in Mesozoic dinosaurs, but we need to move as far as possible from the idea of always thinking about wolves and lions.&#8221;</p>
<p>W/all due respect, why? Based on what I&#8217;ve read (E.g. <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/19/science/rabbits-beware-some-birds-of-prey-hunt-in-packs.html?pagewanted=all&#038;src=pm" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/19/science/rabbits-beware-some-birds-of-prey-hunt-in-packs.html?pagewanted=all&#038;src=pm</a> ), pack hunting in birds is comparable to pack hunting in wolves.</p>
<p>&#8220;The idea that some theropods (and yeah, inevitably, especially dromaeosaurs and tyrannosaurs) may have lived in groups seems to be the subject of more debate, disagreement and hyperbole on the web than any other subject (and I bet there’s more coming in the comments), and yet there is remarkable little actually written about this in the literature.&#8221;</p>
<p>In reference to tyrannosaurs, my opinion is this: As Witmer has shown (See 19:10-20:10: <a href="http://www.videozer.com/video/9Y177Zn" rel="nofollow">http://www.videozer.com/video/9Y177Zn</a>  ), large theropods probably had the intelligence for pseudo-cooperative (I.e. Communal) hunting, but not true cooperative (I.e. Pack) hunting.</p>
<p>In reference to dromaeosaurs, my opinion is this: As indicated by the adult-only clump (E.g. Ostrom 1969), multiple shed tooth (E.g. Maxwell &amp; Ostrom 1995) &amp; trackway (E.g. Li et al. 2007) evidences, Eudromaeosaurs were probably social predators (be it communal or pack hunters); As indicated by the brain evidence (E.g. Walsh &amp; Milner 2011), Eudromaeosaurs probably had the intelligence for pack hunting; AFAWK, there are no large terrestrial hypercarnivorous endotherms that are social predators w/the intelligence for pack hunting, yet don&#8217;t hunt in packs; Therefore, combining said evidences makes pack hunting Eudromaeosaurs probable.</p>
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		<title>By: Herman Diaz</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14453</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Herman Diaz]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 15:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14453</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I remember reading from somewhere (well, that’s a credible source) that there is no fossil evidence of pack hunting in wolves either.&quot;

Actually, there is fossil evidence for pack hunting in wolves ( http://171.66.127.192/content/5/1/81.short ). Whoever said otherwise didn&#039;t do his/her research (Shame on him/her).

&quot;Sorry to bring the wolves back to conversation, but what to make of this study?
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376635711001884&quot;

As Bekoff has shown ( http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228380.500-wolf-smarts.html ), Coppinger&#039;s model doesn&#039;t apply to wolves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I remember reading from somewhere (well, that’s a credible source) that there is no fossil evidence of pack hunting in wolves either.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, there is fossil evidence for pack hunting in wolves ( <a href="http://171.66.127.192/content/5/1/81.short" rel="nofollow">http://171.66.127.192/content/5/1/81.short</a> ). Whoever said otherwise didn&#8217;t do his/her research (Shame on him/her).</p>
<p>&#8220;Sorry to bring the wolves back to conversation, but what to make of this study?<br />
<a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376635711001884" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376635711001884</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>As Bekoff has shown ( <a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228380.500-wolf-smarts.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21228380.500-wolf-smarts.html</a> ), Coppinger&#8217;s model doesn&#8217;t apply to wolves.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hone</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14446</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 11:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello, PDF on it&#039;s way. Nope, nothing on vocalisation becuase there is basically nothing to say. We have an exceptionally limited understanding of dinosaur hearing and no idea at all about vocalisations. I&#039;m sure they made noises and communicated, beyond that I&#039;m basically out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, PDF on it&#8217;s way. Nope, nothing on vocalisation becuase there is basically nothing to say. We have an exceptionally limited understanding of dinosaur hearing and no idea at all about vocalisations. I&#8217;m sure they made noises and communicated, beyond that I&#8217;m basically out.</p>
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		<title>By: Tayo Bethel</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14444</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tayo Bethel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14444</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will you be covering possible dinosaur vocal behavior as well? The image of a herd of hissiing sauropods just doesnt seem right (intuition talking. This is just an educated lay person LOL)

Could you send me a PDF of your mutual sexual selection paper please?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will you be covering possible dinosaur vocal behavior as well? The image of a herd of hissiing sauropods just doesnt seem right (intuition talking. This is just an educated lay person LOL)</p>
<p>Could you send me a PDF of your mutual sexual selection paper please?</p>
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		<title>By: David Hone</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 09:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would call (limited) parental care primitive for archosaurs. It&#039;s there in birds, crocs and lots of dinosaurs at least.

As for the rest of your comment, yes all pertinent stuff. But I don&#039;t want to say much about it as a lot of this is covered in an ongoing manuscript of mine! ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would call (limited) parental care primitive for archosaurs. It&#8217;s there in birds, crocs and lots of dinosaurs at least.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your comment, yes all pertinent stuff. But I don&#8217;t want to say much about it as a lot of this is covered in an ongoing manuscript of mine! <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: David Hone</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14434</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 09:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure anyone has looked into it seriously, mostly because it&#039;s obviously incredibly hard to quantify and compare. As usual the neontologists don&#039;t have to worry much about this stuff as they can just study the living animals or infer from very close relatives. As such when we come to do things like this we often have to sort out the neontological stuff first and then try and do the actual palaeo.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure anyone has looked into it seriously, mostly because it&#8217;s obviously incredibly hard to quantify and compare. As usual the neontologists don&#8217;t have to worry much about this stuff as they can just study the living animals or infer from very close relatives. As such when we come to do things like this we often have to sort out the neontological stuff first and then try and do the actual palaeo.</p>
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		<title>By: David Hone</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14433</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Hone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 09:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14433</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes of course. I doubt there were parthanogenic dinosaurs. But animals can be solitary or even anti-social except for brief periods. Apart from mating I don&#039;t think adult puma for example ever get into contact with each other (apart form border disputes etc), they actively avoid one another.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes of course. I doubt there were parthanogenic dinosaurs. But animals can be solitary or even anti-social except for brief periods. Apart from mating I don&#8217;t think adult puma for example ever get into contact with each other (apart form border disputes etc), they actively avoid one another.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaime A. Headden</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14426</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jaime A. Headden]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 01:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m actually curious about this point. Has anyone ever assessed the frequency of &quot;complex&quot; or &quot;sophisticated&quot; behaviors, or qualified these &quot;mammalian&quot; aspects of their behavior before? Note that this question comes from wondering: How often during a day or whatever period a given behavior may be performed alongside &quot;less complex&quot; or &quot;less sophisticated&quot; behaviors? 

While I think the statements above (Darren&#039;s) to be relatively true, and analysts/observers drastically undervalue the complexity of behavior in lizards, crocs, and so forth, frequency matters too: Adaptability and flexibility in tool use functions and social group dynamics (whichever groupings separate &quot;snake balls&quot; from meerkat colonies or wolf packs) tend to appear in higher frequency in more avian and mammalian groups, while no nonavian reptile seems to use tools. The flexibility of the brain seems to have quite a bit to do with this, including how often an ability might be employed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m actually curious about this point. Has anyone ever assessed the frequency of &#8220;complex&#8221; or &#8220;sophisticated&#8221; behaviors, or qualified these &#8220;mammalian&#8221; aspects of their behavior before? Note that this question comes from wondering: How often during a day or whatever period a given behavior may be performed alongside &#8220;less complex&#8221; or &#8220;less sophisticated&#8221; behaviors? </p>
<p>While I think the statements above (Darren&#8217;s) to be relatively true, and analysts/observers drastically undervalue the complexity of behavior in lizards, crocs, and so forth, frequency matters too: Adaptability and flexibility in tool use functions and social group dynamics (whichever groupings separate &#8220;snake balls&#8221; from meerkat colonies or wolf packs) tend to appear in higher frequency in more avian and mammalian groups, while no nonavian reptile seems to use tools. The flexibility of the brain seems to have quite a bit to do with this, including how often an ability might be employed.</p>
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		<title>By: peteykins</title>
		<link>http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2012/01/05/theropod-sociality/#comment-14425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[peteykins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jan 2012 23:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/?p=6816#comment-14425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;they might still have been solitary&quot;

Well, hah, yeah, but only up to a point, right? After all, mating has to happen somehow! Unless, of course, somebody discovers evidence of parthenogenesis in dinosaurs (at first I meant that as a joke, but it&#039;s been demonstrated in some reptiles and even birds, hasn&#039;t it?).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;they might still have been solitary&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, hah, yeah, but only up to a point, right? After all, mating has to happen somehow! Unless, of course, somebody discovers evidence of parthenogenesis in dinosaurs (at first I meant that as a joke, but it&#8217;s been demonstrated in some reptiles and even birds, hasn&#8217;t it?).</p>
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